Super Panel: How to Hit $50k+/day with Affiliate Marketing | AWasia 2016

What's going on guys? Welcome back this panel we're gonna discuss how to hit 50k a day as an affiliate This question is one we get asked a lot, so we brought some heavy hitters here to talk about it but before we get into that, I need your help for a minute okay? So you guys included, who here has hit 50k a day in revenue as an affiliate? Okay, I see a few hands, keep holding them up, keep holding them up

Without cloaking? Without running nutra? Without finding a loophole on some self-serve? In USD? I see some of the hands started to drop Okay, so these guys are gonna help us understand how you could get to these volumes without being a shady affiliate Maybe a little shady You know, kind of on the border but anyway, so let me introduce them real quick So Rishan has an interesting story

He's an actuary So he's very involved in math and statistics He went into a professional poker playing and from there he went to affiliate marketing This is a story I heard quite often that professional poker players are able to transition into affiliate marketing Oded started with the Israeli army, learned how to be, you know

I'm Jewish, pretty much Okay, so he's Jewish but besides that he started in web design, moved into affiliate marketing, and now he manages a team of 15 media buyers Alex started at 13, which is kind of, Alex is right there, sorry my notes are a little out of order and at 16 he decided to start in affiliate marketing and performance marketing and now he manages 47 employees across four continents, which is pretty amazing and you did this pretty quickly, in just a few years And Daniel was a power seller for eBay Like I remember those days

That's amazing and now he's getting into lead gen He has offices in three countries and you run a startup, kind of, you invest in small startups? Alrightm cool Alright, so the first question is before we even get into how to get into 50k a day, what is the biggest mistake you've done and like how much money have you lost trying to get to 50k a day in one day? Because everyone has Mine is like 7k because I was an idiot and didn't set up tracking properly So that's mine, I want to understand how important it is to have all your bases covered before you start scaling to 50k a day

What's the biggest mistake you've done and what was it and how did you fix it? So we'll just start on my right It was definitely server downtime like with a campaign that happened during the night So I was not awake not one of my server guys was awake It was just spending money on Facebook for like six or seven hours straight and that cost 5-figures I want the precise number

Around 15k Perfect Moving on For me it was I had a specific buyer I got really nice payouts there and I really pushed hard

I wanted to scale very strong and it turns out that this spy went dark So that was actually pretty heavy hit there Yeah Did you ever collect? Partially but not much And what was that? Was like 75k damages

Ouch! Alright Let's keep going Yeah I think it's a combination of server issues and yeah, fantastic buyers who then vanished Well and then you know, trying to catch a bird, inside joke to whom people know what I'm talking about but if you're talking about the figure, I'd say like yeah, I hear someone laughing in the crowd I think like 35k something like that

These numbers are only escalating Let's go, I'm enjoying this tremendously We've obviously had server issues too but one interesting one that happened this year actually Most of the stuff is managed by my team the media buys but with one particular client, I went to the manager myself, it was a big deal and he was close to me anyway and it was a Sunday, I decided to go watch a movie, in the middle of the movie I guess, the SSL certificate on our sales page expired So we weren't able to pass any that day

They weren't able to make any sales Ye-yeah he easily ran somewhere I think around $12,000 – $13,000 in traffic during that movie, until I got out and looked at my cellphone It was inundated with messages So pretty rough one

So what I'm getting is before you guys think about going to 50k, make sure to have everything covered Your technology stack needs to be on point You need to have fail-safes for everything You need to monitor your landing pages, make sure they don't go down SSL

I would never catch that Your domains don't expire, Make sure nothing goes wrong because once you start getting to these levels, just as much money as you could make, you could lose even more So let's talk about another question here So be you ready to lose the money of course Yeah be ready to lose it

Make sure you could afford to lose that money, alright So another big question that we get when I say 50k we're talking about top-line revenue, for now right Like 50k profit is obviously possible but I think for most affiliates that don't have a large company, 50k a day in top-line is very impressive I want to ask,what do you do when you're starting to hit 50k a day in terms of ROI? What kind of ROI are you shooting for? What do you consider successful ROI? Do you focus on ROI or are you just focusing on total volume? I mean, definitely as the volume increases, the ROI decreases It's just a fact

There's nothing you can do about it For us, I think total revenue is important If you're thinking about ever selling your company right because that's a big deal when a company is valued So since that's probably not in the near future, for our plans it's a bit more of a focus on ROI I mean yet the other thing is you've got to look at the boundary conditions of your traffic source and stuff

So if you can increase the volume substantially and decrease the ROI, as a result of that but make more money In other words, the traffic source allows you to do that There's enough of a market and there's enough of an audience and the traffic source, probably going to do that because it makes more money but a lot of the time, the amount of volume available in the traffic source isn't that much So you're focusing on ROI and maximising what you're getting out of that You guys have anything else there? The initial reaction would be to always maximize profit but the reality is really that it depends on many variables right

So and if you aim for higher profit, it could be that your margins get thinner So it really depends if your company setup can support this amount of float and this amount of cash flow and so this is one thing and also, it really depends on caps on your buyers for example, to manage it accordingly and as Rishan said, how much volume is available on the traffic source itself The initial instinct would be profit but it really depends and you need to adapt it according to each new case Actually for our media buyers, their goal is to achieve a 30% of ROI Why that number? That's what we picked and eventually

Actually you mentioned 30, I operate at 30 as well What do you guys shoot for? Perfect, great minds think alike Yeah it depends a lot on the scalability as well What Daniel just said like, if you have an offer and you know there is a gap either limited by the traffic source or by the offer itself and you know you can hit that gap Assuming on cap, I need a number As a cap number, what would you shoot for? As a successful ROI

No, I I don't mean it like that, it's more that, let's say if there's 50 sales per day or 100 sales or 500 sales per day, it doesn't really matter it's it depends like do you have a cap and do you are you able to hit it? Yes or no If you know you can hit it for sure and you should optimise an ROI Gotcha, gotcha Oded, so you mentioned you have a team and you pick this number So how do you manage your team? So pretty much everybody here has a team

So let's talk about management of this team If you don't mind sharing how you structure payment because a lot of affiliates tell me, I don't want to hire anybody because they're gonna steal my campaigns Which is a very short-sighted way of looking at things You have to create a win-win situation for your employees and for yourself to be able to get to these kinds of numbers So how do you just set up your team and how do you compensate them? Alright, so short answer, we compensate them very generously

In addition, when you have employees, I mean, when you're a sole of affiliate you think like the only thing you care about is making money, money, money, money, money, but for most employees they want to work at a steady 9-to-5 job for example and don't want to have the risk for example, that the server goes down and they're losing 15k Money I think is only number three They want to feel like they're a part of something and they're building something Because we had a media buyer was truly a monster and his goal was to make enough money, so he can buy an apartment without of mortgage and once he achieve that, you can see his performance going down and eventually quit So that's one of the things and how we manage them, well that's a panel by itself actually, but basically one of our supporting thing is reporting that's easy to see what everyone else is doing

What we do is daily calls and when I'm not in the office and when I'm there like, frontal everyone giving their own issues, what problems So basically what we have is like a few superaffiliates working in the same space, sharing information, how it happened I guess it's a bit of luck Does anyone else have anything to add about hiring and dealing with people in this business? Well first of all, while hiring, I mean personality is a big thing So usually you can already feel that out in the interview and how trustworthy that person is, how motivate he is, and how likely he is to take off and so that's the first thing

The second thing is you want to build a team atmosphere where he really feels part of it and it's like really like a soldier in an army you know what I mean, like he really wants to be work together and be part of it He we would never even think about leaving or something Please notice the two Israelis mentioned soldiers in army Keep going In addition to that here's the thing, even if the worst case comes to reality and somebody takes off and steals your campaign I mean, like it's just part of life and it's just part of business and you got to accept that and always keep in mind that until that point you've greatly benefited from that employee as well

So at the end of the day, the ROI on it is most of the time very and positive Just to add another thing about the Israeli thing So we have a team in Israel, we also have a team in a different country and basically they're both working on the same procedures, the strategy for you to optimise and Israel is just better I guess it's a personality thing They're aggressive, especially because what run are or not are considered like high-CPAs like over 40, 50 and that's small leads for two to three bucks and you have to be aggressive when you're running those offers

So yeah it's an Israeli thing Someone found that funny Alright So on that topic, let's talk about verticals Okay so, before we even dive into verticals, I just want to know yes or no

Do you think you can hit 50k a day running as a pure affiliate through an affiliate network, not your own offer, not your own host and post just pure affiliate? Do you think it's still possible, let's say next year? Just in order With or without a team? With and without Go ahead Just get your opinion on that I think with a team is definitely possible because then you can focus on multiple low cap campaigns at least that would be my strategy, I think that way

Without a team, I would be very, very surprised No, It's definitely possible I believe but it's definitely not sustainable on the long-run I mean you can hit like a one time wonder here and you can hit it maybe multiple times a year but it's definitely not something that will go on for the long-term Also just that psychologically, I think that the pressure on somebody who sits really at home alone and just works by himself to hit those numbers, it puts a lot of pressure on you and it's tough You need help and you need support and you have a lot of weight on your shoulders

I'm a very optimistic person, everyone that knows me can vouch for that I believe everything is possible It could happen but eventually even if you're a solo operation working by yourself, then eventually it comes to the question, what do you want? Do you want to make a quick buck for example, I make $1 million then go invest in your dream restaurant or whatever or if you want to build a business because eventually, even if you're doing those numbers then what you have is a high paying job You still have to work all freaking day, a lot, ruining your F5 key So I think a team is essential, if you want to build a business of course

Yeah, so I agree It's 100% possible I think Daniel hit on a very important point though that it's seasonal right Different offers do better at different times of the year So sometimes one year it's gonna be easier than others

It's definitely possible without a team, I know many people who've done it without a team It just gets the point where you need to live a life too right and you need to pass on some of the work and you need to get rid of some of the stress, hand it off to other people So if you're new and you're getting into it, you'd probably want to do it by yourself initially, so that you have a proof of concept and then you are able to teach people Makes no sense to shell out money to build a team without having proof of concept, without knowing what you do That's a good point

So you mentioned or Oded mentioned that he runs high paying kinds of campaigns So let's dive into verticals again and the kinds of offers that you choose to run, why you chose them, do you approach them with the idea that this can be a 50k campaign? And let's just kind of go in order and tell me your methodology in choosing offers and understanding if they're a candidate for this kind of volume So my first really big vertical, which was years and years ago was actually dating and I'm even willing to say that they also did a little in casual dating and the reason why those type of offers were interesting for me is because back then, you could still run it on a lot of different traffic sources and I won't go into detail, if it's always allowed or not but at least it was possible back then and there was just a huge range of offers available as well with high payouts Like for example in the Nordics or in Norway, you could easily get a payout of $25 for just having someone sign up to a dating website and as soon as you then have like what Rishan said as well, a proof of concept, it's easily scalable to multiple countries So it was dating and first and then dating died off a little bit because just called really hard to find the good spots to actually buy the traffic on plus advertisers became smart and actually started advertising on the same traffic sources as well

So then I started looking for something that also appealed to like a large audience and I feel like that's that's a key part at anytime, that it applies to a large audience and that was well obviously, sweepstakes What I just talked about as well You want to talk a little more about sweepstakes? Sweepstakes, sweepstakes, sweepstakes? When I look for an offer, I usually look for something that is compatible with my skill set and so for example, I believe that I'm very good with leads Selling leads with maximising revenue per lead, so that just makes it easy to always look first for offers that are in this space and also I know which traffic sources I'm good at and with traffic sources and not so good at So I also usually look for an offer that is compatible and compliant and with the traffic sources that I'm running

In addition to that, it should have broad appeal It's really important for scalability as well as internationa, that it's an international offer so I can scale it better and according to those factors I usually pick the offer So yeah, when I mentioned high CPA is okay, basically three years ago, we were running leads and as I said, small payouts Now if you want to achieve 50k it's not gonna come from one day basically, you have to work for a few weeks So optimise etcetera and with leads, it's pretty hard because a lot of times you'll be optimised out

I'll put a little sign up for example, if running high paying leads like solar and refi, it might be a bit different but for example we were running dating, also casual dating, which is a nice thing to call it And then we found we reached 15k and then we get optimised out, and also when you're sending leads you're pretty much trusting the optimisation, the ability to read the data of the company you're sending leads For example if you send 15k worth of leads and for them they just see like 5k sales in the first one or two, three days then they optimise you out Even though a week later, it might become super profitable So I would pick, if you want to be stable, offer credit cards

So credit card submit because if you keep providing credit cards, legit credit cards obviously, to the advertiser, fantastic keep running So that's what I'm looking for I guess mine is a little different, when looking for new verticals and new offers, I'm looking at what's working right now, what are people doing big numbers at and just go into it with the assumption that if somebody else is doing that, we can learn to do it better kind of thing So we look at what what people are pushing in, you know what are the big verticals, what are the big offers, try to get those as close to direct as possible and try to use those same traffic sources Do it better than them and once we've got that working, what we know already works, then we'll try to use the other traffic sources, the other skills we've built to expand it out more that way

Okay, so everyone here mentioned traffic sources So I kind of want to dive into that obviously, in most countries, Facebook and Google are the two largest So let's talk about it, is it possible to hit 50k without working with those? Do you want to make sure to have them and your portfolio, traffic sources you're working in? What are your thoughts about it? Yes, absolutely I would agree as well but I'm curious to hear if you think there are other ways to hit those kinds of numbers without trying to access these major, major platforms I mean, sorry Daniel, even with just a big direct by, a single direct by, you could easily hit those numbers

I don't know if you classify that as a traffic source because it's not a DSP or it's not an easy log in, you know know something when you click a button but with just a direct buy, you could easily hit that without using any specific platform The RTP platforms out there, which basically acts as almost any inventory there is, you know, like you can generate tons of volume there and also there are native ads, which is not Facebook and Google Well what would you say besides Google and Facebook, cause a lot of affiliates have problems with these traffic sources, in terms of getting accounts, getting account reps, you know, getting things approved, what would you say the next top three traffic sources in terms of volume that you would recommend for people to exploit? So for me, me it's MediaMath and AppNexus It's a monster really and other than that there's Outbrain out there, Taboola out there like native ads are generating tons of volume nowadays Anybody else would like to add? Definitely native, I think yeah

Natives definitely the third one I second native Definitely natives for sure and I think it's just a brilliant ad format We've all clicked a native ads, those ten celebrity is how they looked and you know what I'm talking about, it's just even South Park has an episode about native ads because it's such an unintrusive format not like a banner blinking to you on the right So yeah I think natives

Yeah and don't forget about one more, which is email marketing like do you consider it as a traffic source? I mean it's also very, very possible with that to hit the bigger numbers Okay the the next big topic that a lot of people ask about is sustainability because the truth that matter is when you go from 1k to 50k, it can happen but being able to sustain that, build a business around it is very, very difficult So I just want you to share what you did to make sure it's sustainable Was it making sure you're running multiple traffic sources, multiple offers, is it a testing regiment? What do you do to ensure you're able to sustain large volumes and not get that dreaded down to zero a day, day? So what we do, we run several traffic sources and as well If you look at the how the revenue breaks down, we've got like one advertiser of course, also has a few offers so let's that does like let's say 40-50% of the revenue sometimes 60-70% but then you have the other offers that are doing like 5k, 2k, 3k and that's how it looks list for us

Yeah I'm with Oded here Really the key here is to diversify and really spread your traffic and spread your risk, have many smaller campaigns maybe instead of one big campaign and that way you have less variants and really because variants in a business is a growth killer in my opinion, and if you spread it and you have more sustainability, you can just make smarter business decisions Also for the long run and it keeps your business healthy I think they hit the nail on the head, you've got to diversify The challenge of diversifying is it takes a lot of energy and the only real way I've found to do it at least, is to have team members do it and have a leader that does only our Google, only our Facebook, only our native kind of silo it out

Yeah that's the real practical way to do it Diversify and have people specialise in specific traffic sources You mentioned having people that specialise on traffic sources but there's a lot of synergies that happen across traffic sources for example, retargeting on AdWords, from users that click-through, from Facebook So you guys want to talk about any kind of synergies that help get even more value from your media buys and your activity? I think the data is the big one for us AdWords provides the most data typically on your campaign and you can extract that data and use it on Facebook just for your demographic targeting, you can use it on native if they've got the same placements or you can even just go direct a lot of the time, to the placements that Google was showing your ad on

Go direct to them and try to pitch them on selling you in ad spot and a great placement straight up It's been going for us It's a perfect answer, I have nothing to add Okay, alright So the other thing I want to talk about here is self-serve versus managed media buys versus CPA kind of buys

Can you tell me what your breakdown is with that and just your opinions on where people should focus to really kind of scale out initially to that 50k level I honestly haven't done managed media buys in a while anymore but when I was doing it, I was doing that mainly with pops and back then it would be highly beneficial if you could make it work, to pay them on a CPA basis but usually what happens is you first have to prove your worth Build up the relationship then go for the CPA but CPA is pretty much risk-free as an affiliate So if the opportunity is there, always go for that in my opinion So for me it's self-serve all day because really I believe that my team has more almost better insights and better media buying skills as those employees that work at those traffic sources

Honestly, otherwise they wouldn't be employees at those traffic sources, you know, I believe that after all those years of experience, we really know some nuances and we know how to exploit certain things in ad servers and we know how to to media by better than them So for me, it was always self-serve that I prioritised Yes, self-serve all the way because I see the standard model of affiliates they're arbitraging pretty much If the traffic source will be fully efficient and basically and the CPC that you're generating is 40 cents and you should buy the traffic for 40 cents So as affiliates, we find those gaps in the markets and that's how we do our margins pretty much

So yeah, you can do CPI, I guess buy relevant inventory or whatever to do an extra boost but yet to do them a margin and real profit and full serve and yeah do the arbitrage We actually haven't ever touched CPAs be honest I'd love to be able to, if you could teach me, so we would buy the traffic to a self-serve and going back to the idea of diversifying, once you've got the traffic, we can try out different verticals and stuff like that So for direct buy for example, we can buy for the month maybe nutra works some parts the month, maybe or sometimes in the day, whereas maybe solar will work or mortgage refinance So we buy direct or self-serve, pay CPM or pay-per-click and take it upon ourselves to figure out what offer converts for that traffic as best possible

Since a lot of you mentioned self-serves, I'd like for you to tell some people here some of the tricks and some of the loopholes you found in the past that maybe are dead now, that doesn't matter if it's out there Like, I mean for me very simply on Facebook back in the day, you just launched thousands of ads It just didn't matter, I mean just cleaning up Super easy, super simple but if you want to share other techniques that may have worked for you just to kind of spark people's ideas, I think it would help them out I actually you don't have a lot of those stories unfortunately, because I heard like crazy stories of Facebook had some problems their API and I made 150k in a day after spending a thousand

Unfortunately we weren't that lucky We did have one traffic source that apparently allowed you to upload animated GIFS and it technically worked So the CTR was explosive for like two, three days but it died pretty quickly So yeah, even if those loopholes happen, so yeah, it's like cash for like a day to but that's it It's not something sustainable

I wish I had more of those Does anybody else have any more? I mean, I think it's temporary when it happens So it's not something you plan for, it's not something you can count on I guess interesting things we've done in the past is manipulating pixels To try to target the correct subset of an audience either within Facebook or Google and that's a thing of the past unfortunately, since they've changed change the way those work

Next thing I want to talk about is technology We mentioned in the very beginning how all of us got burned because of a tech issue but let's talk about, do you think an affiliate could really scale just using off-the-shelf software? Or do you think you need to build your own to kind of give you that competitive advantage and really dominate the market? So you know, start again to my right I mean in terms of trackers, for example I think there are companies out there right now whose sole focus is just tracking and it if that's like your sole focus, I don't think it would be wise to try to invent the wheel again because they're specialised in it Again but to answer your question, I am a strong believer that you should always focus on what you're good at yourself and if you're good at yourself at the actual media buying part, then you should focus on that and the best, at the same time I do think that you should always get the best tools available out there and don't be too cheap about it, because that you will actually already give you a competitive advantage a lot of the time I think it's definitely possible with off-the-shelf products but the thing is once you get to those hemispheres and you have a really high revenue, suddenly every small optimisation that you can do equals a lot of money and it's worth a lot of effort as well

So I think that once you get to 50k a day in revenue plus and really you should start coming up with custom solutions for your specific needs or have developers putting that into place and it becomes really profitable that way Well first, I agree with Alex I mean if you're good at creativity, be creative Even though I'll put a stipulation cause it's the easiest thing to reap but if you're good at coding then go with technology If you're good at networking and social skills then be a good negotiator, be a good networker

If you're good at none of the above, I don't know make money online blog but I think once you get into those volumes, then you start to have needs that you don't find without all the box solutions For example like I was saying about reporting, especially if you have a team You need something that will help you, otherwise the guys will spend two hours a day every day and just doing reports Plus it's impossible for you as a manager to look at the entire company structure if it's all based on excels or or whatever So even if it's possible, I would invest in technology

I think it's a time management bandwidth kind of issue I would ideally like to have everything custom, you know, work the way I like it but it's just really not practical given the amount of time and bandwidth I have So I think probably 70% of the stuff we use is off-the-shelf and the other 30% that we've had to do is mostly out of necessity functions that we need to be done that just aren't available or they're not efficiently available, cost-effectively available So it's out of necessity, not necessarily a growth strategy or a USP One tool that you guys haven't mentioned yet that a lot affiliates seem to love and I see a lot of companies being built around, is spy tools

Can you please talk about it and how you feel about it? "Research tools" Have you used them? Do you use them? How do you use them? Do you think that's gonna help you hit that 50k or is there waste of time? I hate them because every time I look at them, it's all our ads Literally if I search for a keyword, so I personally hate them but they're useful, generate ideas, see what other people are doing, sometimes we've even noticed new verticals actually that have worked for us, through spy tools So they have their value Research tools, as Oded said

Research tools Uh yeah, I hate them as well because we should have changed trackers more often because it's embarrassing when people just put our domains and they see everything, but yeah, I mean I hate and love them I mean, sometimes they do help you to prospect and see something that's starting to pick up for example we found this offer that was starting to do very well and we saw like this huge spikes in all the research, spy tools and then we try to contact the advertiser himself and he told us, sorry I want exclusivity on those traffic sources So we pretty much went to the advertiser rework and cloned the offer, pretty much, and destroyed it for three months So they have their place

Think competitive intelligent tool right, that would be a proper naming for this Potato, potato Yeah, so yeah and we use them a lot and I think they are great to be honest, because I think in order to get to high revenue and high profit numbers, you need to constantly test new verticals You can never really relax and just focus on one thing So it's a great way for you to actually get your feet wet in a way because you can get initial ad copies, initially landing pages really quick, for a quick and dirty test, kind of to measure the potential and once you see potential, we actually really go in there and come up with our own stuff and approve upon it and so, it's very important for our business in a way

I think I'm the same as with Rishan and Oded that that I have like a hate love relationship with spy tools I still use them myself too and we usually do it when we get into a tunnel vision So we have like a certain amount of verticals that we run but some angles is going to make the difference or scaling higher or higher and I think it's almost impossible to constantly come up with new angles from your own creativity without getting some ideas elsewhere I think especially when you're running geos, countries that you don't live in A lot of the time the angles I'll see on these research tools are things that are happening in the media in another country that I just would not have known about

I'll see the angular research it and see what the thought process behind it is We found a lot of value in doing that for sure You guys mentioned international just now Can you talk a little bit more about the importance of that to getting to 50k a day? I know a lot of affiliates, we're all from various countries but you tend to run in your own country because that's where you're comfortable but can you mention about going international How you approach it? How you get things translated and kind of walk us through that process localising your advertising for various markets

So yeah, I mean, yeah course the first tier is like a big chunk of the revenue but we do international and we don't even translate I mean we just like to buy in bulk because it makes traffic cheaper than if you're just targeting, if it's from the sources we're buying and yeah we don't translate I mean we found that it's not worth the time I mean the incremental improvement, at least from our experience that it does, and from the products we're promoting, it's not worth it So you're running everything in English

Pretty much I'm lazy, we're lazy, I guess No, no I'm kidding We're running everything in English but as I said most of the revenue comes from the first three countries So it's basically English anyway and the second tier like Nordics and whatever, they all speak English anyway and France, Spain, whatever

Never really worked for us Maybe because it's in English Maybe but I don't think so There may be some other reasons there I'll second that

When we split test certain geos it doesn't matter if it's English or localised Yeah Anybody else wanna add? Yes so we always almost always translate actually and just a little tip here for everyone like, we stopped using One Hour Translation a long time ago, it's just very sloppy Especially if you run big numbers If there is one or two typos, it really affects it so what we did is we just, almost in every language, we have a guy on Upwork, even a bunch of them on standby

So they actually do the translation and then we send it to another one to proofread and in addition to that and it's a really good tip here, as well for people running Facebook You can have and use them to moderate your comments It really helpful there That's a great tip, anybody else want to talk about international? We translate everything like Daniel said It didn't even occur to me to try to advertise in English

Such a perfectionist Where the language isn't English, we do it all through One Hour Translation for what it's worth We're probably probably like the one of the top ten because the customers We get everything translated and then proofread afterwards by them, also Yeah it just never occurred to me to try English

Yeah same here, like and we also translate everything Maybe Oded got it figured out Small hack As you grow as an affiliate, eventually you need a little bit higher margins to start hitting 50k a day So you're gonna go direct to advertisers, try to build your own offers, do these kinds of things

Do you want to talk about that part because I think for a lot of affiliates, they're a little bit afraid of going out there to talk to bigger companies and kind of work with them directly Do you have a way of contacting them? How do you recommend people go about this when they're finally ready to escalate their business? I mean, if it's a smaller affiliate like you hinted at, I think a big part is managing the expectations of the advertiser when you're negotiating the deal, their CPA Managing expectations in terms of volume right In terms of getting in contact with them, I mean you're gonna have to get creative, shows like this are awesome for that a lot of the advertisers come here Advertisers in different verticals have conventions that they go to and you know, you can infiltrate those, meet them there, and that's about it

I mean I'm not a big fan of if we find an offer through a network just for the future business relationship of that network, we're not a big fan of then ever going direct with that advertiser We would either try to find an advertiser in a vertical we like or if we're running through a network to a specific advertiser, we'd continue to do that Just long-term Best bet I think Yeah I don't remember last time actually I sent to a network, and maybe if I'm testing out a new vertical, I'm trying out something but I see a lot of big strength of mine is to build out my own office and I've been doing that ever since

So LinkedIn is your friend obviously and shows like that really helped to find and get the right people and when you have a little trouble getting your foot in the door, they're secret is always and it almost always works, is just to send them a free sample Nobody says no to free leads, like I never met somebody that didn't want them and then once they see that it's legit and quality is good, you already have a foot in the door and you can start working with them directly Yeah I think it's also really important over here again, to build up your network of affiliate friends as well If an offer is hot in the industry and it's being run a lot and you have your own network of people, who you can ask these kind of questions to, like it will one give you some sort of credibility, knowing if the company is legit and that you will get paid because at the end of the day, you probably will be floating quite some money opposed to working through network, and second you'll get your foot in the door with with the right person

So for me personally, I got hardly ever got a contact by Googling or looking on the website but it was mainly just an introduction by email or or Skype Yeah, we prefer not working through networks and even the few times that we did run through networks, it might have killed for three or four days and then pretty much died because every other affiliate has access to that offer and are set up on that network So it's pretty much you have no edge So I prefer working direct and prefer working with the people we know I've been working for a while, so if there's also a trust factor of them not screwing us

So yeah always direct and yeah, like Rishan said by the way, like mitigating the hopes of the advertiser For example, if the advertiser has a call center and he needs a steady flow of inbound calls or leads so his call center can pick up the phone, you can't just screw him and shut the traffic for two days because he has people sitting on the line and that's it another thing I want to talk about, because this is a big deal when you start hitting these kinds of numbers is cash flow So you know affiliates sometimes overlook it, they're just so excited that they're growing and they overlook this really important thing because it could come back and really bite you So can you guys talk about how you manage cash flow and how you kind of manage that risk and how you evaluate if it's worth continuing pushing an offer? So actually, I love that subject So once you're hitting high numbers, life is great because actually you have got leverage and on both sides because the traffic source is happy, because you're sending them a lot of clicks and you're giving and you're spending a lot of money there and the advertiser is happy, because hopefully they're making a lot of sales because of you

So now with this newly gained leverage You can first of all, go to the traffic source and you can ask for better payment terms and it really, at premium traffic sources monthly net 30 It's something which is very common and they give it to you pretty fast The only problem is that it's often capped at the credit line So this is something you need to work out and so one of the ways to do it is to send them documents about your yearly report, showing that your company is in healthy financial standing and basically increasing the credit line and that way

Also just nudging finance team on a regular basis until they give you a better credit line and then you go to the advertiser and you kind of really need to feel out now, is the advertiser really desperate for traffic? Or does he have an overflow of traffic? If it's desperate, you can go up to him and you kind of give him a demand where you say, look I cannot float this amount of money If you want to keep receiving this kind of traffic, you got to give me a better payment terms You either got to prepay me or you could switch me over to weeklies If it's not that desperate you can just offer him a discount depending on your profit margins for a better payment So now you fix the problem half way from both sides, you know but with the credit with the increasing credit line and with the better payment terms, usually I'm out of trouble there, and in addition to that there's also sometimes a best-case scenario, where you get prepaid and you have an open credit line and then you just have money sitting there that you can use for your campaigns and help cash flow over there

So it's really like there's there's a lot of things that you can do in order to optimise it and get out of trouble there Yeah, I mean pretty much what Daniel said I mean, for us from our experience, for you to reach those numbers, you're a big spender for traffic source as well and a lot of them will be happy to give you a credit line and then the advertisers can pay you once a week, even twice a week, and if they usually like the traffic sources willl invoice you net 30 So it's fantastic So for us it's just easier once you're a big spender to talk to the ad networks and they will give you a nice credit line

Nowadays the barrier to entry into affiliate marketing is a lot lower, like I remember when I think most of us got started, you know tracking was an issue Now you have tons of great products out there So the barrier to entry is getting lower and lower What keeps giving you the competitive advantage over everybody else who is coming into the market and competing with you directly, oftentimes have access to the same traffic, and the same offers? I think it's technology and relationships So relationships with the advertisers directly

You get better payment terms like you mentioned, better payouts, they're willing to hold on maybe when your traffic is down for a day or two before handing it out to somebody else that's a big deal, and technology-wise, being able to serve your pages very quickly for mobile is a very very big deal Having some kind of combined way of reporting for us to analyse and for our managers to look at, gives us an advantage instead of having to log into multiple accounts or whatnot We can pull reports easier I mean, I think those are the two biggest things Probably the relationships with the advertisers is the hugest one

I know earlier when we were talking about employees, you mentioned them running away with your campaigns or whatever and that's never been a concern for us because they're not going to be able to negotiate the same deal, they're not going to have the same leverage with that advertiser So even if someone were to do that, it's not realistic that they could steal our business for any significant period of time Yeah, I'm gonna say something that we're doing right now We didn't do it till now So basically a proper backend

So if our advertisers are paying us almost a 100% of their frontend sale, it means that they're making at least a 100% on the backend So if you have your own product and your own bundle and your own back and your funnel, then you're just destroying the game So I think if we're talking about mistakes, before I think our mistake is we didn't do it quicker, sooner and I think that just gives you a huge edge and that's pretty much it Yeah I just wanted to add that what Rishan said about the relationships It's something that I feel that's very undervalued by a lot of people, also by the ease of communication that is available of just sending a Skype message or just chatting with people but actually picking up the phone and talking to people and meeting them face-to-face is actually how the relationships are being built and I completely agree that I feel like that's the biggest edge of getting to a higher level

If you were gonna try to guess or let me rephrase this, if somebody's trying to hit 50k, they're an intermediate affiliate, they're doing well but they're having a hard time What would you tell them to focus on in 2017 to finally be able to hit those numbers? Don't try to reach 50k and well, I'll tell you what how we work, we have a lot of campaigns and most of our campaigns I wouldn't say hundreds but 150, 200, 200 plus campaigns over different traffic sources and that's the way we work Basically that's what gives us stability I mean, we have campaigns that's been running for six months

Of course, you need to refresh the creatives once in a while, remove bad pubs but they have been doing 500 bucks for six months steadily So I would first say, you know, try to create a few campaigns that do the two, three figures a day Start from there Don't think about the 50k and also don't have this perception that you can have one campaign, which means one traffic source with one targeting, it's gonna do a 50k and even if it does, it will die within within a week It's burn rate will be huge, at least from my experience in the past year

I mean, now starting out, new trying to get to that number I would just add, mentally prepare myself Throw the idea of living a balanced life out the window and get on the grind Test as many things as humanly possible, keep your ear to the ground, listen to what other people are making work and as soon as you find something that does well, just you know, do your best to dominate it and scale it as fast as possible I mean, you just got to throw a lot of stuff around until you find something that wins and then scale it as fast as possible

Yeah, I also think that the advice for 2017 is probably the same advice we would give in 2000, just and be persistent, keep executing every day Get up, get out there, and really try out everything you can Trial and error is the key and don't be afraid of failure because with failure, you gain experience and every time you fail, you learn something new that you can apply in the future So that would be what I would advise and maybe treat it like a business right, like mentally prepare yourself This is a business that requires some kind of investment, we're gonna lose money testing all these different campaigns

I feel a lot of new affiliates I speak to just don't have that mindset, you know, they're very afraid to test and lose money Yeah that's why I think I like the original title of this panel, which was the "No BS Panel" 50k sounds more like a biz-op So yeah, it's a mindset kind of a thing because most affiliates come into this game and they think like yeah, I have 500 bucks I'm gonna turn to half a million within six months, which maybe in 2008, when you can run flogs and rebuilds and Adwords maybe, but today and you know, as you can see, AWA is growing from year to year and you have more competition Then treat it like a business and in a business you need to invest money You're not gonna take those $500 and turn them into 500k, you have to lose before you make some money

If you're lucky to make money Do any of you guys have plans? I know Rishan mentioned he doesn't have it but do any of you guys have a plan of an exit? So are you trying to grow your business in a way that you want to exit? Is it something you keep in the back of your mind? You know because at the end of the day, yeah you could run 50k and put money in the bank but maybe you have bigger ambitions Is that something you consider well while trying to scale your business? Personally, I've always seen affiliate marketing like how we're talking about it here right now It's like a cash cow and invest the money actually, in all our businesses, which are easier presented to sell I still feel to this day that I could, yes, I could step out of the entire affiliate business but still, I'm like a big part of the success of it as well

Just of like the vision and all that So I know others are only working for the exit, I just considered it in a different way as like a cash cow to invest and other things Yeah, we'll definitely consider it Obviously if the price is right but what I have to say is that in the recent years, the industry really changed a lot I mean and now you got those huge companies being public and such, and they are in desperate need for a revenue here

So actually, media companies are actually very interesting for them for our purchase So it is definitely the subject but obviously for me, personally, it needs to be worth it but I would consider it, yeah We treat it as arbitrage as we do it as fuel, pretty much, but let's look at it like this Let's assume you're doing $3-4 million profit a year, which is most respected Then you'll need ten years of that steady to $240 million

Or you can invest in technology or whatever and then sell your company for a $100 million within two, three years So we just treat what we're doing as fuel Of course, we are building technologies on that and they'll be sold one day but yeah if you really want to make the quantum leap, you can't just rely on arbitrage Okay so this panel is called the no bullshit panel So I'm just gonna ask upfront because this is the no bullshit panel

Did you make 50k a month or a day at one point? A month? Or? A day, sorry Yes Yes, you did okay Did you? Profit or revenue? Well revenue with a profit, like I don't know Points don't count

Yes Okay 50k a day? 50k a day? So like $15 million a month Yeah

Yeah Okay great Yeah of course Yes of course Alright

So, I mean, I would ask for you to show me like some pictures or some proof, you know because I really don't buy it Well actually I think we got something cool Do we have something? That's one day? Photoshop? Obviously I think we have another one, no? Yeah, we got more I'm not using Voluum by the way

How do you make sure Voluum doesn't take your campaigns? Just kidding Wait do we have another slide? No? No, that's it Sorry, thought we had more proof Was that combined? If you want, if you want, I bought 3G So you can come and I'll show you live stats if you want

He showed me the other day when I called him out You ran away, that's why I want to show you more Alright, sounds good Anyway, thank you guys I think this was a pretty insightful panel

At the end of the day, everyone here is taking their business very serious It is possible It's possible as a solo affiliate but it's going to be very, very hard and unsustainable So these guys have been able to do huge volumes without having to do tricks or cloaking or doing anything that would ruin their business long-term So thank you again and enjoy the rest of the show

Thanks

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